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    @juliwuli 2772291 wrote:

    came to believe a higher power can restore us to sanity??[/quote]
    That’s the Step as it’s written on the wall. The specific directions for that Step are in Chapter 4. It lists some minimal requirements. One of those requirements is being convinced of the hopelessness of alcoholism (Step 1). Am I thoroughly convinced, right down to my core, that I can not overcome alcoholism, that I have lost the power of choice?

    Another requirement is laying aside prejudice.

    This ‘pre-conception’ of alcoholism as punishment, and God as wiping the slate clean, must be layed aside. Then, as it tells me on pg 47, am I willing to believe in some power? That’s all that is required. Willingness to believe. Then I abandon myself to this power, in whatever direction it takes me in Step 3. And so forth.



    @DayTrader 2772344 wrote:

    I think alcoholism is the result of being separated from God. God loves us but he doesn’t force us to stay close. We’re “allowed” to wander if we so choose. I don’t look at it as something “sent from God to punish us” but as the natural result of what my choices…..and mostly in my choice to play the role of God – to try to run my own life (and the lives of others) as best I see fit.

    thank you you have answered my question entirely with this paragraph. thank you also to veritas 1 and keithj for your responses



    @juliwuli 2772291 wrote:

    came to believe a higher power can restore us to sanity??
    my higher power is god, i have always believed in god i have to say that straight away, but i have always believed in karma too, – what goes around comes around and god judges sinners and will punish them,
    i always thought my alcoholism was a punishment from god, as believe me, i have sinned in the past, so i am asking to be absolved of my sins?
    am i asking for my slate to be wiped clean?sorry if this sounds jumbled but i’m confused,

    There’s a lot of stuff in here, but I’m right with you on the questions! I spent years trying to determine why I wasn’t getting any favors from the God my mother taught me.
    So, I’m going to break your post down into chunks as I understand them:
    First, I think the second step says, “2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.”

    Hope, as a tool, relies firstly on being honest with myself and, having come to grips with the fact that I cannot do it with all my willpower and/or good intentions, finding the answer outside of ME. Me PLUS something else constitutes something greater than myself, true? Therefore, a group of people or a sponsor or a book or a combination of these, plus myself, is by definition, a ‘power greater than myself.” If I can rely on a group of people, a sponsor, a program, and/or a combination–a “Power greater than myself”–to show me the way; If I can do what they did as they did it, then I can reasonably expect to get the same results. If insanity is defined as, “Doing the same thing all the while expecting different results,” it then follows that sanity can be defined as, “doing the same thing, expecting the same result.” “COULD restore us to sanity,” means there’s work to be done.

    The Spiritual Principle of the second step is HOPE. That if I do what they did, I can reasonably expect to get what they got. If I do it often enough, it will become routine.

    As a tool, HOPE simply means “If I can’t do it alone, perhaps there’s someone of something out there that can help me,” and I CAN BE restored. It’s knowing that and asking for help. We no longer have to face ANYTHING alone. ANY THING.

    HOPE. It is the power of the Alcoholics Anonymous Fellowship and the second step in becoming usefully and happily whole.

    Now, as for the second part. This is a 4th and 5th step issue, so don’t get the cart before the horse. Understanding that the relationship with a personal and infinite God can only grow as the vessel is made ready, simply allow yourself to remain teachable. Ask.

    As I understand ‘The Fall,’ it keeps us separate from intended communion with God–and that God’s tremendous sacrifice of Christ on the Cross at Calvary allows me to come back to communion with Him. Justification. To start anew, and be forgiven all my transgressions. But I must choose it of my own volition. My journey with God as *I* understand Him is just that: MY journey. Yours will likely differ, but it’s available to you if you’ll simply ask. I had to stop dictating my expectations to God and start listening with my heart before I actually started growing–and that happened only after doing the Twelve Steps and embarking on a spiritual quest of my very own.

    As always, your results may differ…

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