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    @Mark75 2573739 wrote:

    Maybe if you can present to your sponsee the perspective that it was he who forsake God, not the other way around… And, that God always loved him, whether he returned the feeling or not…

    Just a thought.


    That’s a very good way to put it, Mark, thanks. I suggested to him that God loves him and always has, but self-pity seems to be in his way. He can see a tiny bit of grace, that he is sober, but still feels like his world is collapsing.

    Some of us get here and our lives instantly get better — it was like that for me; I was young and my exterior wreckage wasn’t that bad. Other people have to deal with a lot of hard “stuff” in early sobriety, and gratitude doesn’t come easy.



    Ask him about the God of his understanding and ask him if he believes God could or would if sought – Ask him if he believes in the 3 pertinent ideas of A.A. and what they mean to him – inform him even the devil believes in God and it does not matter unless one relies on God.
    Only within can one believe it saddens my heart one has to come first then come too before understanding that no human power can help him just deviate him from his own soul /personal willingness.




    My experience has been that every time I started to look askance at a sponsee’s spirituality, or felt I needed to “do something” about it, my own Spirituality suffered. A good friend once said, “scratch any alcoholic, and there’s a big shiny co-dependent underneath”. I am a mere conduit for the message, not an interpreter or, God forbid, a fixer.

    Nor does the book say a lapsed catholic has to have any kind of conscious contact with God before moving on to and through the third step. The greatest gift of this program is my freedom to doubt God, something my Catholicism never allowed. (The perfect faith of Abraham? that’s a pretty big burden for a six year old! You’d drink too if you had my God!)

    Nor is it anyone’s responsibility in any way to facilitate such, or oversee such, or be the arbiter of such. This is HIS recovery. He will demonstrate his faith, courage, integrity willingness, humility, love, etc. by working the steps and INTERNALIZING them through practice. Or not And the God of his understanding will be revealed by degrees as his life unfolds before him. Or not. Either way I stay sober, so it’s all good.

    “We Agnostics” P. 52:

    “When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crises we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is or He isn’t. What was our choice to be?”

    “We Agnostics” P. 46:

    We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. “Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?” As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.*

    It wasn’t until I gave myself permission to doubt that I came to believe, and if I waited to have faith bfore I did my second and third step, I’d stll be drinking. My sponsor made sure that I had all the freedom neccessary to become truly free.

    All Big Book quotes taken from Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Ed.

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